Systemtheorie - Methoden und Anwendungen für ein- und mehrdimensionale Systeme (German Edition)

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But "floss" and "firm" in the previous 2 posts demonstrate that there are still a lot of lucky finds to be made. By the way, "war" and "lose" were included in previous posts. Comment Let's push it. Plural von See Stolen E: Comment Wie waers mit: Ich dachte du bleibst, Wochen Monate Jahre dran? Uebrigens eine sehr lustige Liste. Comment I am really impressed by this thread. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false friends" and the comments on them.

This list would be a good aid for beginners and also experts. I would appreciate to get it. Not only because of the great number of entries but because I find that I have less problems learning the english vocabulary by reading the "false enemies" and the comments on them. Comment to rappel, amerik. Comment einer geht noch: Dann muesste es doch auch den Regeln ensprechen, oder?

Comment Silke--I'm always here, I just don't like to post too often unless I have something specific to share--this isn't "my" thread, it's ours, everybody's, it belongs to everyone who has contributed, and who will contribute. Horst--everyone you see here is collecting the list, and LEO is kind enough to host the collection and thus give life to this mini-community, isn't it great? So far, we don't have a complete description of the English and German meanings, nor even a careful editing of the list to see which ones really are False Enemies.

But for my part, I didn't want to get too involved in too many discussions about which words belong, because it might interfere with further collection of new words, unless a poster clearly misunderstood the definition. At work there's sometimes a saying of "he who suggests it, does it" so if you want to start compiling a complete list with meanings, I'm sure we'd all appreciate it! It's great if you're learning from it, but don't forget the "False Friends" which classically is much more important for language learners, there are whole books on the subject.

Thanks to all the new posts, I DO read and enjoy them all. Comment Germ - yeast germ - Keim. Comment What about christendom? Perhaps they're already old; I didn't read all these comments, because the list already quite long ;- Greetings from a "false-friends-suffering" German exchange student in Dallas, Texas! Comment Almost a whole week has gone by, and no new "Falsche Feinde" have been posted. Are we reaching the point where we have captured all of them? I don't think so - but the specimens that are left in the wild are certainly becoming more elusive.

I know there are more Falsche Feinde out there - let's catch them all!! The following is the beginning of a 19th century poem which contains TWO Falsche Feinde both of which are new to this thread. Can you spot them? Comment I am not sure, but is "Springer" such a false friend? A new false enemy? Comment Sorry, the first line must be "false enemy". Comment Anne, da haste mitten ins Schwarze getroffen!! Comment wie ist es mit wog D.

Can't believe that all those animals are still missing Mute Dativ von Mut E: Comment Congratulations, we have reached entries by now. Maybe it is time to get into the discussion about questionable entries that do not meet the "Falsche Feinde" definition. For the time being I have updated the "complete and uncensored list" and subdivided it into two sections. Comment Undisputed entries A-G: Comment Undisputed entries H-O: Comment Undisputed entries P-Z: Comment Questionable entries 64 in number: Comment This is of course no final verdict.

In fact, everybody is invited to argue and prove that a certain word belongs in one or the other category i. Peter's definition of 18 Aug. All the same the FE-community and all newcomers are still called upon to hunt the remaining Enemies. As Hans said earlier, "Let's catch them all! Comment Syl-de, a big thank you from me and the rest of the FE-community for compiling the latest list of False Enemies.

I was thinking last week that it's about time that we had a complete list again. I was even considering doing it myself, wasting an hour or two on False Enemies, instead of painting the porch, and cleaning up the basement.

Falsche Feinde

But you have already done the job!! I especially like the way you divided the list into undisputed and questionable entries. Comment Many thanks at syl. I am sorry to say it's only entries as "smoking" and "gut" are included twice ;- Btw, I'd like to dispute the status of "smoking". The German and the Englisch word clearly have the same English origin and are therefore no False Enemies. Comment I'm so sorry, but I have to reduce the total amount once more: In order to make good, I have a new one: Comment It was a very rainy sunday afternoon, when I noticed how many of those Falsche Feinde are still around.

It was much fun to catch some more of them Austrian for parish boundary; E: Comment and the last bunch: Einheit and some additional relatives of already known Enemies: Comment syl-de, you are incredible. How did you find all these? It must have been a very long and very rainy Sunday Peter, it seems that you have created a new medical condition - the False Enemy Syndrome. It's highly contagious, and addictive, too.

Once you are hooked, you spend endless hours catching False Enemies, when you should be painting the porch, eating, or sleeping. Maybe we need to start a therapy group Comment Count me in! Comment just found one in one of the other threads: Oregano, scientific name "Origanum vulgare" Sorry that I didn't include this one into my last and similar posting, but the idea came to me during the night.

Well, I think it's time to paint the porch Comment I forgot to ask before: PA mentioned that "smoking" in English and in German looks back at the same origin, which is most likely. But does anybody know the reason for developing a totally different meaning in the German language? Unfortunately I do have no source to look it up, yet would be interested to know how the different meanings developed.

Or can somebody tell me where I might be able to look it up? Comment Heinz H, I have finished the first coat of paint on my porch. Thanks for reminding me. Since I have to wait for the paint to dry, I have some time to look up "smoking" Etymologie-Duden: Smoking ist die Kurzform von smoking-suit oder smoking-jacket. Gemeint ist ein Jackett, das man in England nach dem Mittagsmahl zum "Rauchen" anzog, um den Frack zu schonen.

Comment Vielen Dank, Hans! Even so it originated in English, smoking is - as far as I know - in respect of a garment not used or known anymore in this language. Quite interesting that the Germans picked it up and saved this meaning from extinction.

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Obviously our flair for Anglicisms has a long history. I hope your paint has dried up; it looks pretty much like rain is just around the corner. As far as I know, "smoking jacket" is still used in the English language. Interestingly, the German "Smoking" or "Smokingjackett" denotes a prim dinner jacket, while the English "smoking jacket" is much more casual, sort of a "Hausjacke". Comment Neither do I own a porch nor am I obliged to paint one. Thus, I could luckily hunt down another gang of Enemies. Comment Syl-de, don't you know that this "I could stop any time" attitude is one of the typical symptoms of FES addiction?

You are deluding yourself.

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Please, please, seek help!! Find the nearest chapter of FES Anonymous. Don't get sucked into the maelstrom any deeper. Ist "well" ein deutsches Wort? Comment Got another one! Ich will ES nicht den Punkt streitig machen, es kommt mir nur komisch vor Comment Merriam-Webster kennt zwar nicht das Grillrestaurant aber: French grille, alteration of Old French greille, from Latin craticula, diminutive of cratis wickerwork Date: Thanks for the hint!

I always thought f-flat in German is simply "e". Therefore I checked a website on musical notes, low and behold what did I find? Fez, die Kopfbeeckung his D: Ist doch ein Unterschied, oder? It is the same key on a piano, but when a very careful violinist plays the two notes, then e is a little bit higher than f-flat. I am sorry to say, but "as" was already included in Peter's very first posting albeit he meant the German 'as' as the note or the ace.

Comment Sorry guys, there's no scoring for "fes". Believing syl-de, it's a turkish sort of hat like a small upside-down bucket, dark red, with a piece of black string fixed on top in English. I'm afraid it's the same in German: You are right, but may I add that the imperative sing. According to Peter's Definition of 18 Aug, 9, it does not matter if words have two separate meanings, where one of them is only a cognate. Comment This would be absolutely boring! There are tons of words that have the same pronounciation and the same meaning in English and in German and then also some other meanings.

There is nothing special about that, just look LEO up and down. I always looked for words that have definitely different meanings - and most of those listed above do. But they are those really hard to find Is that worth a new thread? May I once more refer you to Peter's definition of 18 Aug esp. It is the unrelated origin not the differing meaning that make those words False Enemies. Although the word in German and English denotes the same part of the body and has the same etymological root it nevertheless is a False Enemy: What's so artificial about a hat and a note?

Google proves that both words are really being used. At least, used more often than the imperative of 'fliesen' ;-. I wasn't taking a swipe at your latest words. As a child I wanted a fes, and I've played weird things like Fes or Eis before. Halter, Griff wedding D: Stadtteil von Berlin, E: Comment This weekend being astonishingly warm and sunny has kept me from my favourite leisure activity most of the time.

Italian or Spanish secular priest; E: Austrian for fatso ; E: Ware and again some relatives of already known Enemies: May I add this one: Comment "wider" as opposed to "wieder" ,given by stefan i think, is arguably not a word but a morpheme since "wider" needs an additional element to form a complete word: Going by the rules, anyway Oder "wider besseren Willens"? Oder "Wider den tierischen Ernst"? Wider ist noch quicklebendig!! Comment hm wolf hast wohl recht gell? Comment Reinhard, I am afraid you are right.

I'll try to find ersatz Comment Just came across unbar D: Comment Arrgrgrg -- this thread is driving me nuts! No matter how hard I try, I cannot think of any false enemies. But this morning, with the help of the last entry, I found one! Comment Donjo, that's it! I found various attempts to assure one's Seelenheil like this: Andreas Capellen auf dem Berg I was really surprised at your complete abstinence so far. However, be careful, this sport is highly addictive Comment can't believe it! Comment Sorry that I have to object to dg's "still".

This English "still" and the German "still" are going back to the same Germanic roots. Nevertheless "still" is a true false enemy: Mardi Gras rats D: Don't know if it has the same origin. In German there is a second word 'Abort' derived from the lower German 'af-ort' remote place meaning toilet. Comment PA, you seem to have waited for it ;- Here we go: Bars, Schranken baste D: Teil des Zaumzeugs, or: Trottellumme, der Vogel rase D: Gartenkorb Yes, I do have a life!

Have a nice week all! Comment I knew it! How are you doing that? And when do you have your 'other' life? Comment Kann es sein, dass ich trotz der bereits vorhandenen phaenomenalen Liste auch eins gefunden habe? Comment und noch eins: Rote Armee Fraktion E: Comment Well done, Silke!

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Comment syl-de, honestly, how in the world are you doing that? What's your secret recipe for False Enemy catching? I am happy if I find one or two, but you produce them by the dozens!! Comment I am setting snares for them - and they are trapped before you can say FES Btw, I have to correct the very first entry of my weekend posting. Comment ds, kommst du aus der schweiz? Get the bubbly from the fridge Comment Disputed entries Comment speaking of AR: Ich komme aus Hamburg, lebe jetzt in Bayern.

Vermutlich bedeutet das Wort in der Schweiz etwas anderes? Hauptstadt von Italien E: Comment Whith this URL, a decent English dictionary word list an a bit of scripting it would be possible to automate the search http: This will produce a rather comprehensive list of F. But it would also blow the fun. Comment Finally I had the time to go through all the given definitions of false enemies.

And I dare to say that right now I have understood. Considering that, I have to admit that most of the "tons of words" I mentioned above don't really fit and can be thrown away immediately. Read and enjoy the concept's not a bad one - we might pick it up here when some day this thread has run out. Comment for Peter or Thread-Polizei: Comment Do names count? Na, hoffen wir darauf, das bei Syl am Wochenende schlechtes Wetter ist ;-. Relief - probably cognate both from French relever We need a referee. There are false friends and loanwords sneaking in here. Comment Funny excursion, my ideas: Auto limit sorry about zig, I've posted it twice, but it isn't in syl's list.

Comment Kern fern horn. Comment Alex, why are horn, imitation, gold, and limit "false enemies"? Am I missing something? Next time I will read the 1st posting of the thread a little more accurate. I will try to find words fitting the requirements. Comment This is a re-post of "kerb", initially posted by Amelie on Jul It occurred to me that Kerb is also a dialect word for "Kirchweih, Kirmes", for those of us like myself who grew up speaking Rheinhessisch.

I am not sure whether Duden lists it. Comment auf die Gefahr hin, dass es auch in die Liste der disputed entries kommt: Mehrzahl Herbst gibts das ueberhaupt? Abkuerzung fuer desireable residence, attraktiver Wohnsitz des Genetivartikel Das ist ganz schoen schwierig inzwischen.

Immer wenn ich ueber einen Falschen Feind stolpere, schaue ich in der Liste nach und muss feststellen, da war schon jemand schneller. Aber ich gebe nicht auf! Comment Silke's "falls" can also mean "Faellen" as in Waterfalls. Comment I think I found another one. Comment dg - you state "no proper names or geographic place names" as one of the rules of the False Enemy game. I think you are going too far here - place names ARE allowed - according to Peter Czukor who started this thread, and made the rules see his post from Sun Aug 18 Worms is a true False Enemy.

I was born in Worms, and that is always a source of amusement to my American friends. What about proper names of people or "given names"? You give the example of Till, as in Eulenspiegel. Dick would be another nice one. Peter's rules don't really say anything about given names. My personal feeling is that we would be opening the flood gates too wide if we allowed given names, with all their nickname varieties Bob , short forms, etc. Oh Peter, great old man on the mountain, can we have a verdict about given names?

I'd suggest that acronyms that are spoken as words e. ROM ['rom] instead of [ar'ou'em] do count; often those are also no longer spelled in capitals and treated like normal words laser, to laser etc. To allow other acronyms IMO would "open the flood gates too wide", as almost any combination of letters is used as an akronym in one or more specific fields. I DID check the rules for "till", but I could not find a satisfying answer. That's why I asked for clarification and posted only one name I agree with Hans Wolff: I hope Peter will enlighten us soon.

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BTW, if those names are ruled out, those already on the list should be removed as well, right? I came across "else". Maybe I'm wrong and "else" is something else than a female name in German I admit, I haven't checked the Duden or else for that matter and this is the only first name I came across on the list. Comment I make the following points on today's comments: This should be excluded. Comment 3 Abbreviations - I hear no objections to excluding them, so I hereby declare them excluded.

Comment Question for Muttersprachler: Are words like 'drum', 'rum', considered Abkuerzungen or true words? Zur Frage, ob der Imperativ Singular in Deutschen mit oder ohne -e Endung gebildet wird und ob deswegen "sag" ein legitimer Falscher Feind ist oder nicht: Auf jeden Fall ist "sag" erlaubt, neben "sage". Nach kurzer Google-Suche fand ich folgende Seite: Ist "er gebiert" korrekt? I'm not familiar with alot of language resources Where could one check if two words are cognates before adding them to this posting? Comment 'bot' Salut Gabrielle, Not sure if you meant on-line resources or not.

In any case, I'm not aware of any single resource that attempts to directly match inflected forms of German and English to determine if they're cognates or not. But if you have a knowledge of how German words and inflected, then armed with that knowledge and a good monolingual English dictionary with etymological information there are many should do the trick. Take your candidate word, 'bat' for example. My desk-size Webster's Collegiate tells me that Engl.

We can pretty safely assume that the inflected German past tense form 'bat' is not related to that, but could check a German dictionary under 'bitten' just to make sure. One way to try to find new ones is to look at a conjugated verb table of German verbs, and find verb forms that look like they might be English words, and then check them in a dictionary. I just found a new False Enemy 'bot' that nobody seems to have mentioned; it's a form of 'bieten' don't ask me I don't know which one and of course is used these days in internet lingo.

We could probably find a whole lot more this way. T'es pas francophone par hasard? Comment Hi everybody, just wanted to jump in to respond to some of the questions that have started piling up. Who ever thought this would go on this long and that we'd need to think about the rules so carefully? But since behind all the fun there is a useful purpose, if I don't know the "rule" myself because I never thought of the situation before, I can go back to the "noise word" situation myself to think if there's any help to be found there.

In general, there wouldn't really be any reason to exclude anything that is understood by a speaker of the language encountering the word. Thus from that standpoint, you could include practically all of the categories mentioned. On the other hand, I do tend to agree with Hans who said, that it seems to be opening the floodgates too wide. Probably we should relegate geographical names to the same category, for now. Shall we agree to do this? But as ultimately those too could be useful, shall we agree that it's just a moratorium, and if the current flood turns to a trickle someday, we will "reserve the right to reopen the floodgate" at a later time if we need to?

Same thing with acronyms, although to make the game interesting, should we keep acronyms, as long as the FE is ALSO an acronym, and must be totally unrelated? This should be fun, too, so I'd almost like to just take a vote and see what people want, but I also realize the value of having a referee, so there's not endless dickering about it. Those would be my suggestions, but if there's a strong consensus for a different viewpoint, I can be convinced, so make your case! Finally, dg to your point about being a referee, I'd love to be a perfect bilingual with encyclopedic knowledge of both English and German etymology, but alas I'm very far from it; if I were, maybe I'd even rate being called the great old man on the mountain.

But until then, I'm afraid we'll either just have to fight it out individually, unless someone comes along who is willing to take up that crown. Comment Gabrielle, I have checked with my etymological dictionaries, and you have passed the congnate test. Comment This thread has now reached follow-ups. Therefore we ask you to consider the use of adding any more posting.

Thanks for your attention and have a nice day. Comment Bagger - D: And a quick word of explanation about "bagger" for the folks back in the Fatherland: Thanks, Hans, for your help in etymology, what resources do you use? I searched the internet for an on-line German Dictionary like Duden which would give me roots of German words, but can you believe I didn't find any? So I'll need your help with a couple more: D -- Hint; E -- to overturn, possibly different origin 2.

D -- Stop; E -- Walk with a limp may also come from "halten"??? Peter, pas francophone, mais bilingue c'est-a-dire trilingue avec moins de peine en Allemand qu'en Francais. Ce qui me manque, surement, c'est la pratique! By the way, I vote for no proper names at all.

Falsche Feinde - Language lab: English ⇔ German Forums -

They can get so unusual with the most arbitrary spellings. Like our famous Canadian figure skater "Toller" Cranston. There's a good FE, but how would you check the etymology? Comment Gabrielle, I mainly use two reference sources and I mean the kind where you can flip pages made of actual paper, commonly called BOOK: I have not found a really good online source yet. If you want to buy a book, here is a good list of etymology books: BTW, if you are interested in etymology, the takeourword site is a blast!! All 3 of your False Enemies have passed the cognate test.

About "halter" - you don't even have to resort to Greek bug words. I do not have "encyclopedic knowledge of English and German etymology", but I do have a few good dictionaries, and, more importantly, I really love researching the etymology of words. Therefore twist my arm It has been said that "in every German, there is a little policeman".

So here is my big chance to live out my German policeman fantasies!! Comment Could it be that syl-de missed the following: I'll let Hans be the judge of all these entries. Wow, judge AND police! Comment Gabrielle, your list is cognate-free, with one exception: What does "sock" mean in German? Comment If we count Gabrielle's "Tau", we should keep in mind that the twelfth letter in the Greek alphabet is "My". The advantage of these Greek letters is that they can serve as either part of a False Enemy pair.

Place names are a "can of Worms" pun intended. I was thinking "Socke" and too tired to realize "sock" is english too! So don't add this one to the list. What about "passage" instead? Passage from the french "passer" E: To cause a horse to move sideways comes from L "passus": Comment It's time to bring this thread to the top of the list again. Today, I stumbled across the following False Enemy: Comment sofern hier auch das folgende passt: Comment pore - G: Comment This thread at least has some intelligence value!

D- Waste, E- Lyric Poem. Comment Hans, you could also do a new list, incorporating all the words added since the last list. You could post the list in several boxes, that would increase the length of the thread. Plus for the rest of us still trying to find those few elusive FE's, an updated list makes it easier to prevent duplication. Comment couldn't find it in the thread, therefore: Another cognate in the same family is E "stitch". I could list them one to a post to raise the thread count, but that would be LAME.

Comment Wow, dg, you are outdoing yourself. I especially like "butte". I have reservations about "bins" - for the very reason that you give in your post from Fri Nov 15, where you asked: And the answer is: Because really there should be an apostrophe in that word: Comment If we're still taking Greek Letters, there's "Nu". D-past tense of "preisen"; E-3rd person singular of "pry" mir: E- a Russian local community meter: D-meter unit of length E- A person or thing that measures from my dictionary, it looks like these come from different roots, although they both have something to do with "measure" Does "pony" count?

Or are the German "bangs" similar to the pony's hair? Comment Gabrielle- greek letters? Meter- surely this is the same word, what does your dictionary say? Pony - isn't this just a loanword from ponytail?

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Pries - I like it; how could i have missed it? Hans- I'm glad you liked butte - it was a beaut. I guess the distinction between 'bins' and 'rum','drum', and 'ran' is that the former is a contraction of two words and the latter are contractions of just one word. Of course the origin is Russian, but I would use this word in English in the same way I would speak of "Kibbutz", I guess. As for meter, I have two definitions.

One comes from Latin "metrum", a measure, which comes from Greek "metron" this would be the German "meter". The other one comes from the English word "mete" which means "to apportion" and comes from the Old English "metan", which may or may not have the same root as "metron" I put this out for Hans to judge. As for "pony", maybe it should be listed in False Friends if it isn't already. I've always found this a strange expression in German because it means the fringe of hair on the forehead, whereas the ponytail is the back hair pulled together.

And no, I'm not kidding, I'm trying to find ones which have slipped through the cracks. The easy ones have been done already by other people when the going was easy Comment Gabrielle, sorry to be such a downer, but Latin "metrum", Greek "metron", Old English "metan" and German "messen" all go back to the same root - if you dig deep enough. As for the letters of the Greek alphabet - I see no rule in this thread that speaks against them.

They are regular entries in all dictionaries, not proper names. I have another False Enemy for you which is based on the Greek alphabet: Comment Leider hab ich im Moment gar keine Zeit, dennoch ganz schnell folgendes zu Protokoll: Ceterum censeo, in dubio pro FEo. Comment wert past of "thou art". Ideally, this thread should gradually self-destruct. Hans- i forgot to ask, what was it like being on a diet of Worms when you were growing up?

I need a volunteer with a good dictionary to check the etymology. Congratulations and don't give up. Comment syl-de - concerning your comment about my "dig deep enough" Indo-European root argument: OK, I admit it, I am being over-zealous. The etymology judge will no longer call hypothetical "Ur"-Languages to the witness stand.

Gabrielle, your "meter" FE is re-instated. He brought me a little bag full of roasted mealworms. They are really quite tasty!! But since I have just told syl-de that this argument is no longer permissible in court, "Kinder" is legitimate. On the constructive side, here is a new FE which, admittedly, is a little lame: I got this wrong in my previous post and so did, by the way, websites - do a Google search on "entymology"!! Wow, you did good work so far, I'm quite impressed.

Never thought that anyone might keep at this for so long. Anyway, no chance to beat the Chatroom-thread again, even posting some new FEs one by one I bet. But just don't think you will stay unwatched for the future Regarding fest, please check my post of Nov 6 5: Duad ma leid, awa des miass ma schdreicha. I'll mind the spelling. One question for you: I don't get what you don't like about 'bins'? To me it's a simple plural whose singular goes all the way back to OE also a more recent verb.

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On the other hand, it just makes it more fun and challenging to find new ones. I still think there's a class of words out there derived from inflected verb forms in German that may be FE's. As far as "competition" for longest thread, it's inevitable that a chat thread will win out in that category, and I see no reason we should try and inflate this thread just for that.

Speaking of length, are people okay about the length and load time of this thread? I don't mind breaking it in two if there seems to be a consensus for that I'd like to be the originator of the new thread if that's what we all agree should be done. On the other hand, if people feel it is already winding down, maybe it won't be necessary to start a new one. Comment Are all the words in the last compilation really FEs? Where did "Christendom" come from? Is that really a German word? I have two more: D- diaphragm photography E- zinc sulphide Lande: D- first person singular of "landen" E- Level sandy region unfit for cultivation etc.

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